It is disappointing to see some businesses including newsagencies heavily discounting Christmas cards. While retail is tough, I don’t see the sense in training consumers to expect up to 50% off Christmas cards – not given the sales being achieved in stores which are not discounting.
Whoa! I thought they’d wait until after Christmas. What next, begin to display them in June then discount them in October then have none in December?
I don’t see the sense either.
Have a look at Crazy Clarkes. They have been discounting since Nov. This is a sign of how desperate they are in this climate. It bad enought to discount a $5 average card but when you have to discount a $1 card.
This is not just happening at the retail end but also at the wholesale end.
The way i see it, 2008 finishes with two different business mind sets:
1. Those that ran their business complacently for 15 years and got caught out without a concise strategy. They then resorted to heavy discounting but then realised everybody else was discounting also.
2. Those that planned for the downturn 6 monthes ago and see growth in 2009.
As a wholesaler, i cannot compete with businesses that are dumping practically free stock onto retailers in desperation just because they got caught out.
This economic situation is pure survival of the smartest, who is still around in 2009 is yet to be seen but discounting is not a stategy.
I Was in my local newsagent the other day a supanews one and all their calendars are 50% off already, but i did notice signs stating they were donating christmas profits to mission australia which i believe is a great action on their behalf. If only more stores could donate profits to charity. It is in these tough economic times when these charity organisations need our help the most
personally i don’t have a problem with it. While i don’t use the practice myself, the way i see it is if these places can source cards at a good price and sell them cheaper while still making a profit on them then good luck to them i say.
Isn’t it why we’re all in business? To make a dollar and more importantly in these economic times to stay afloat? We as business owners have every right to sell what we want for how much we want and it’s nobody elses business except our own.
If you don’t want to take up certain practices then that’s totally fine, but others shouldn’t be castigated and ridiculed just because they choose to. If it helps keep their tills ticking over and keeps them afloat then more power to them.
Are people more pissed off at the fact that these people are actually sourcing these cheap cards and still making money? Or the fact that you aren’t doing it and not making money? Obviously that was a rhetorical question because nobody is going to admit to the latter choice even though it may be true.
This has been happening to calendars as well for a few years now. We flicked one calendar supplier because they were supplying the other local nawsagent at a discount that they were not prepared to give to us. (we had been selling their calendars for years and felt hard done by) The result was that we found Brown Trout and have much improved sales with their product even at douple the price per calendar of the ones we droped. The wholesaler is selling no more calendars at less profit so gained nothing but lost us as a customer.
I personally feel that it is foolish to discount a product so early as it indicates to some people that the product is overpriced to begin with. We don’d discount diaries until late and keep a reasonable margin on them as even in November we have people looking for the current years.
The issue is the training of consumers to expect a discount on Christmas cards. Look at how some people ruined calendars. Thankfully, through better ranging many of us have calwed back on that.
Tommy, If Supanews is donating all Christmas profits to charity, good on them. I suspect this is not the case.
Discounting calendars early is not uncommon for Supanews; in years past they have started selling at 50% in mid November.
Also, I would doubt that would be donating all profit from cards to charity – more likely a percentage of profit … at least it is something though.
Of the many things i’ve gleaned from your postings on here Mark, the thing that glaringly stands out the most is that it seems that if somebody doesn’t do things the way you do in your own shops then your thinking is that they’re doing it wrong and you’re doing it right.
I’m sure that observation will be met with denial, but you only have to read through numerous posts on here to see that it’s true. You may not directly say it but you don’t have to, there’s plenty of other ways you can and do infer it with your holier than thou attitude.
What works for you may not necessarily work for others and vice versa. Each shop is different, each locality is different and each demographic is different. Did it ever occur to you that some of these discount shops selling cards and things cater mainly for the less affluent customer? The customer who can’t afford to be buying packets of 10 Hallmark/John Sands cards for the price they can get twice as many cards for less than half the price? How dare these poorer people and pensioners try to save a few bucks! The nerve!
Not everyone is as well off as you appear to be Mark and they rely on these cheap cards and the like as well as people selling these type things to help get by. It has nothing to do with this “training consumers to expect discounts” crap, they aren’t bloody robots and i’m sure that the vast majority of them don’t expect discounts, hope maybe for discounts but not expect which are 2 completely different things.
You have every right to set your prices at whatever level you want to just as every single other retailer has. If you don’t think you can compete with others then lower your prices so you can. If you don’t want to do that (which is fair enough) then best you just put up with and learn to live with the discount bargains because it’s only going to get worse and they’ll become more plentiful before it gets any better.
i’ve seen many people coming to the counter to purchase a card, only to return it because of the price. money isn’t going very far these days.
pesonally though, i’ve never bought commercially made cards. i mean, some are good, but i prefer to create my own or something to that effect.
saves more money and looks better. instead of cheap (expensive though) and tacky cards.
Um, excuse me but am I missing something here?
Wasn’t the whole purpose of the post-christmas sales for discounts & bargain hunters designed to move any left-over or excess stock?
If you discount before the seasonal sale period is over, then surely it must dilute the purpose of the post seasonal sale.
well said Dean but be prepared to be ridiculed and challenged for your aggressive stand as opposed to the other regular condescending contributors here. You will also be challenged as to whether that is your real name
Dean,
Your assumptions aboout me are wrong. It is a pity you personalise things here.
There is no sense in discounting chritsmas cards 50% even if sales are not as strong as last year.
You’re entitled to your view just as I am mine.
mark
I just think it’s unusual that now is the ripest time to sell them, that they’re being discounted, I’d consider it normal to do it after the event. Each to their own I suppose.
I do see what Mark is saying about training the consumer, it happens with a variety of things and causes confusion.
see what I mean Dean – right on queue
anon, both dean and mark’s opinions are right.
it is fairly obvious where dean is coming from, and same goes to mark.
i do disagree about the pensioners wanting to save. they seem to be spending the most on cards. some i’ve seen spend upwards of $60 on cards. (singles and boxed, give or take a magazine)
if people really want a card, they will get it, regardless of price (for the most part), and thats my opinion.
As a customer – you can buy cheap or you can buy expensive. You can buy things discounted or not.
As a retailer – you can sell cheap or you can sell expensive. It’s up to you if you want to discount and when you want to discount.
My understanding of this topic is whether or not you should be discounting a product which is in high season/high demand. If every retailer starts doing this, wouldn’t customers then start to expect this to happen every time???
I agree with Mark.
I am one of those that wait to post-season to discount. Not a fan of pre-season discounting at all. (And no, I am not well off) Why would you want to devalue the product on high demand?
Dean, Mark Fletcher has the right to publish and share his thoughts with the world on anything and everything that is on his mind – just like every other publisher. This blog (unlike others) invites readers to question the author’s thoughts and engage in conversation – not to be personally attacked. If what you say is true, then no author should have the right to write an article and respond with his personal opinion.
Seriously, though, touching on the economic slow down issue – WHEN DON’T PEOPLE HAVE MONEY??? Australia has had it better than any other for the 23 years I have been here.
Everyone is always complaining they don’t have money – yet they have money to spend on cigarettes and alcohol and the poker machine halls seems to be packed even more these days. http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/money/story/0,26844,24585813-5015825,00.html
Anon, you are really pathetic and childish. If you really dislike this blog and have a personal hatred for Mark, move on. Why waste your typing skills on him? Write your own blog. Be daring and put out your thoughts. And be prepared for others to question them. See how annoying it is for imps hanging round to belittle you every day.
Anon,
I fully expect to be ridiculed when i share my views as i have been on here in the past, but as you’d understand we can only call it as we see it. It might put a few noses out of joint but it’s not a popularity contest and if it was i don’t think yourself or i would be taking out the top prize anytime soon lol.
Mark,
There you go again, just because it doesn’t make sense to YOU or your business, doesn’t instantly mean it doesn’t make sense to others or their business.
For instance, do you have any idea how much these retailers are sourcing these cards for? They could very well be getting them at very low prices and marking them up over 150-200% for example. Now i don’t know about you but if indeed they are making margins like that then to me that makes plenty of sense. How does it possibly not make sense in your eyes?
Or would it make more sense to you to mark them up much higher to Hallmark/John Sands prices just to appease the likes of you and sell much less? The irony is that they’re more than likely making much more money selling more product at the cheaper prices than what they would selling them at recommended retail. Now that makes perfect business sense to me and it baffles me to think that it wouldn’t to anyone with even half a brain.
As for getting personal, if you honestly think i am then best you grow a thicker skin mate. I’m merely making observations based on your posts and what i’ve found to be your pompous self righteous attitude.
If i’m wrong in your eyes then so be it but all i can do is what i said before and call it as i see it. It’s not personal, just my view and opinion which you said yourself in your last post, we’re both entitled to. Besides, i find it totally hypocritical on your behalf that you should accuse me of personalizing things when a few months ago you were calling me a whinger for sharing my views on Intralot!
It’s painfully obvious you’re more than comfortable challenging others opinion on certain topics when it doesn’t suit your agenda but when someone dares to do the same to you then you just can’t handle it.
Luke la,
Thank you for proving my point so succinctly. You summed it up perfectly when you said “As a retailer – you can sell cheap or you can sell expensive. It’s up to you if you want to discount and when you want to discount”
We buy these products for whatever price and we have every right to sell them at however high or low we want regardless of what time of the year it is. If i want to sell for example Easter eggs cheaper than Joe Blow down the road then who the hell are you or anyone else to say that i ‘shouldn’t’? I brought them, i own them and i can sell them for how much or how little i want.
If you want to take some sort misguided moral stand and pay more for items just because you think certain things shouldn’t be discounted at certain times then be my guest, more fool you but each to their own i guess.
I’ve heard people say time and time again (including myself) what a blatant rip off 7-elevens and servo’s are for the ridiculously high prices they charge for things. But i’ve never ever heard people whinge, especially consumers that retailers are selling things too cheap. The world really is going mad lol
I’ve heard of
Dean,
I don’t think anyone has ridiculed you here. I have criticised your use of multiple names to support your views.
My stores are doing great with full price Christmas cards. I see no sense in discounting in the high season.
if I write you want Dean I would not say that but then this would not be my blog.
Thanks for coming back here so often.
mark
I don’t believe in discounting this side of Christmas, but I believe its important for the marketplace to have cheap and expensive cards. We sell a mixture of both. We will discount after Christmas.
The difference between discounting and selling cheap product is purely the marketing pitch. Why not just get cheap product, put full mark up on it, and promote in high traffic areas – wouldn’t this pitch be a better retail environment for customers?
Sarah
Mark,
You are correct Supanews is donating a proportion of the sales of greeting cards, it is better then nothing though. I have been informed they also do this for Breat Cancer research on Mother’s Day as well
After reading the posts here I still think that you are nuts to be selling loose cards at a discount. It is simply not needed. Boxed cards are different. You need to look at what your market is doing. If someone needs a discount to buy a 1.99 boxed/packaged card the in my case they will find it at Crazy Clarkes I have positioned my shop above that. Not that I don’t want that business but I have picked a market and want to do well out of it. My figures are up on last year.
I have been reading this blog for six months. I sometimes get very uptight with Mark’s attitude and views.Does he make me think the topic through and reassess my opinions? Yes and this is good and the reason I keep logging on. All the reasons for discounting prior to the season should be considered and then subjected to “what are we trying to do in relation to be trusted retailers ” test” do you want customers to come back here for quality at a fair price or go staight to the $2 shop.
Warren,
Thanks for commenting and joining the conversation.
I am fortunate to be in a position to visit many different newsagencies. I have seen many think that the only way to compete is to discount. Discounting, long term discounting, says we offer no point of difference other than cost. Unless you have appropriate scale there is little which is sustainable about that approach.
That said, the retailer has to decide what is right for them. I don’t for a second expect people to blindly agree with what I write here.
Mark
I think its way better to add value and not discount before a season. It works in my area. I know that if I offer convenience, service and quality, then people will be prepared to pay more for it. If others find the other way works for them, then good luck.
Interesting debate. What then would people say about Back to School retailing where margins are carved back to bare bone, with a huge labour increase. Would a retailer be better off selling less stock at full margin based on their service advantage. Wholesale is a different story.
Craig,
I see the Back to School situation differently. It is widely promoted as a discount season by the majors. Newsagents have promoted it this way for decades.
Mark
Ahh once again you bring back the old “multiple names” chestnut and ignore the vast majority of my points. The ONLY different name that has been used on this computer has been Noelle and she is my wife. Surprise surprise she uses this computer as well at work!
She commented once which she happened to agree with me which was about Intralot i believe. Not surprising she did agree seeing at it was her 10 grand that went down the tubes as well as mine.
If you want to try and discredit my argument Mark either do so with a decent and legitimate counter argument or let people make up their own mind about myself and my views. Don’t you dare attempt to do it by making up blatant lies about me and saying i’ve used multiple names besides mine and my wife’s who used hers just the once.
I’d be more than happy for you to provide some sort of evidence of proof and what other names i’ve used on here but we both know that’s impossible because it simply doesn’t exist. I don’t need or particularly care if people agree with me or my opinions. If someone does then that’s fine but if they don’t well i certainly won’t lose any sleep over it.
At the risk of denting your over sized ego but you or your views aren’t why i come here. I come to read the the thoughts of the wider Newsagent community and the battles we face. I agree with some things they say and not others but i still find their views interesting hence why i come here. Most more than likely don’t agree with me either but that’s just a part of what these places are all about.
The sad part is i’ve just had to waste 10 minutes of my morning defending myself from your blatant lies of my alleged multiple user names. Show me where anyone but Noelle and Anon once or twice has supported my view. Helen was another in the Intralot thread but you know very well that she’s not me.
If i had so many user names with people agreeing with me then there’d be a heap of posts proving your accusations wouldn’t there? Good luck finding them because i haven’t seen many at all who have backed me up so it shoots your theory right down in flames. But you already knew that didn’t you.
If i honestly wanted to have multiple user names to back up my view i’d simply use a proxy IP address/server to show a different number and i could use any number of user names without you or anyone else knowing. Do you know how incredibly simple that is Mark? But again i’m not here for people to agree with me, i don’t need the validation of others so i have absolutely no reason to do that.
I’m more than happy to debate with you till the cows come home and If you don’t like me or my views then fine, if others don’t like me or my views then that’s fine as well. But let them form their on opinions on those things and not try to discredit mine by making up lies and mis-truths.
You come across as this upstanding selfless crusader for the entire newsagent industry yet you come straight out and lie to them all. If only they knew Mark, if only they knew.
Dean,
You have actually used Steve, Jenny, Peter as well as dean and Noelle. All from the same IP address.
I am all for debate as evidenced by the public comments here.
I have not lied or made a ‘mis-truth’ as you claim.
On the actual topic of this thread, everyone is entitled to their view. Mine is that it is the wrong time of the year to be offering 50% off Christmas cards.
Mark
Tim,
You make an excellent point and one i’ve been saying. As i mentioned in an earlier post i don’t discount cards myself, not because i disagree with the practice but it’s just something i haven’t done as i get all my cards from Hallmark and i don’t have the time, inclination or even space to do so to source cheaper cards.
BUT, i have no issue at all if anyone else wants to do it if it works for them and their area. If we all sold things at the same price across the board in every industry then there’d be no competition which would be much worse of for all of us consumers.
I think some people tend to forget we’re all consumers as well as retailers. Saying that i find it impossible to believe the ones disagreeing with the discount of christmas cards have never shopped elsewhere for items they’ll know they’ll get at a cheaper price.
I mentioned easter eggs before, to me they’re exactly the same as xmas cards. They’re in great demand at a busy time of year so does that mean that shops shouldn’t be allowed to sell them cheaper than others?
Do people who think these things shouldn’t be discounted go to a place like Myer or DJ’s to sell at the premium as some sort of moral stance because they think these things shouldn’t be discounted? Of course not and the notion they would is just ridiculous. It’s all the same thing, people can’t just pick and choose certain items to try and validate their argument.
CraigL also made a very good point in regards to Back to school stock. More products that are in great demand yet selling at ridiculously cheap prices to try and make money from the next shop. And you know the “worst” offenders of that? Newsagents that work under the Newsexpress, Supernews, Newspower etc
I’m not having a go at these retailers for doing that, on the contrary if they can make a buck out of discounting these things and get more business from it then go for it. I just find it incredibly hypocritical of people who are guilty of the things themselves that they are supposedly so dead against.
Mark, do you care to provide some proof please? If your going to be throwing around accusations then the very least you could do is back them up.
I have enough people disagreeing with me around here under my name which is Dean and if i needed some sort of validation like you obviously do from people then why in the hell would i use my real name if people disagree with my points so much? That just doesn’t make sense.
I’m not a yes man, i don’t follow popular opinion if i don’t agree just for the sake of it. I’m Dean, here i am giving my points so argue them, if you can’t do that then don’t resort to deflecting tactics like you do when you can’t argue them with lies.
What’s your stance on cheap Easter eggs and back to school products?
Dean,
The same IP address is the proof.
You have accused me of being a liar but provide no evidence.
You know who I am. I and others here have no idea who you are.
I have commented earlier about Back To School. On Easter, I don’t discount until Easter Sunday, sometimes later. There is no point in educating the consumer otherwise.
Mark
So again you can provide no proof, no surprise there. People don’t need to know who i am or you are, that’s the beauty of the internet we can all have a great deal of anonymity even when we provide our names. We don’t have to provide photo’s, addresses or personal details and we certainly don’t need to provide multiple names.
Even IF i had used multiple names (which i haven’t) That doesn’t change opinions or points of view of what i’ve made here or anywhere else. Dean is my real name, i’ve no reason to hide it but it wouldn’t matter if someone chose to post under the name Hairy McClairy, the name is totally irrellevent it’s the points of view that are whats important.
Once again, argue my points as Dean because that’s my name, always has been and always will be the one i use. If you can’t do that and contribute to the topic at hand then best you probably leave it to someone who can.
Dean, do you consent to Mark sending me the evidence so I can prove him wrong?
You’re carrying on like a pork chop here.
Dean,
The proof is the common IP address the one you have used since July 18.
You say I am a liar, why?
Your name is interesting to me because you have issue with me. Maybe if I knew who you really were I could put your views in context.
Mark
My name is Dean and you can keep skirting around the important issues Mark you aren’t fooling anybody. If you were capable you could put my views into context but obviously you aren’t.
I don’t have a problem with you per se, it’s your deflecting of the real issues i have a problem with and like i said when you want to argue the important points please do so and i’ll be more than happy to accommodate you. otherwise stop talking your irrelevance and ignoring the main points by deflecting away from the fact that you aren’t capable of discussing them. So please add something to the issue at hand or move on to another thread where you might be able to add something worthwhile.
Dean,
You took this thread down this path with your initial personal attack. It is time you put up or shut up and provided context for your views on me as they are personal. My views on you are only based on what you have written here because that is all I have.
My views on this issue are well documented here – discounting Christmas cards right now at 50% is nuts.
In terms of broader newsagency issues, I will let my record here speak for itself.
Mark
dean, get over yourself and quit hijacking the thread. i don’t really care if your name is dean, bob or shirley. and i doubt many others here do either.
you say people don’t agree with you or share your views, have you been reading the other comments? people do agree to teach their own, but aren’t so hardup about it as you are.
it was an interesting discussion, and somewhat amusing, until you derailed it.
on topic though, there is a difference between cheap and discounted cards. i don’t think things should be discounted during the season, only after. but if they were cheap cards (marked up nor not) then i don’t see any problem with it.
and about the back to school thing, remember when office works had 1c books?
Interestingly, im sure nobody wants to see christmas cards prostituted the same way calendars have been over the past few years but we have more to worry about when in adelaide this week on 3 different radio stations, breakfast announcers have called into questions the very sending of christmas cards themselves, a very worrying trend amongst the next generation
Aaron, if you think i’m hijacking the thread and think i’m derailing it i’ll give you 2 suggestions to help remedy your obvious discomfort. Either don’t read the whole topic or even better, just don’t read my posts and skip over them. It’s that simple. It really is.
Oh and just to get you up to speed with internet lingo, to hijack a thread means to enter one and post something that’s completely irelevant to the topic at hand. Now whether you agree with any points i made or how i put them means has nothing to do with it.
The fact is that i’ve made these points and given my views that were/are relevant to the topic at hand so it can hardly be classed as a thread hijack no matter how much you want to make out it is. Nice try though.
Haley, some of these people who share their views like in this case is just a tastless comment and pretty offending for most of the listeners.
They are probably trying to grab their 15 minutes and of course lack wisdom, respect, conviction and courage. Christmas Cards mean different things for different people, religious related, encouragement related, family communication related, caring related and the list is endless.
I hear you, people power should stand up to these freaks who threaten the fundamental respect for human kind for the generations of our children and grandchildren.
The other side of the coin it would not be good for the card business.
Dean, keep writing our office has been laughing most of the day, Christine my Boss actually said no wonder the magazine channel cannot unite, she’s pretty cluey Dean and she suspects this is personal, whatever you have against Mr Fletcher whether it is his success in a number of business ventures, his helpful posts or just his determination to help the Newsagent Channel be treatly fairly that annoys you, or could you be a competitor or someone in the channel or association who wants to discredit Mr Fletcher due to the inroads he and others are making to be treated fairly in a number of areas in the publication and Distribution channel.
Dont take it to heart Dean, most contributors see right through you. In interesting times you are good for a laugh.
where’s anon when you need him/her
probally still at school
shame, i’ve just finished school. was looking for more laughs. dean/anon come back. we miss you.