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Evidence in the fine print

On the weekend I checked my Bill Express and Mobius equipment agreements and noticed that the document version markings, in fine print on the lower left corner of each page, matched.  These common markings link the Bill Express and Mobius equipment finance agreements.

Much has been made about these agreements being separate.  The ANF in its communication to newsagents makes it clear they view the agreements as separate.  While I am no lawyer, I would have thought that a court would find it relevant to its considerations that agreements intended to be separate would have the same version markings.

The status of these agreements is of grave concern to newsagents across the country.  It concerns me that not enough is being done by the ANF to address this situation.

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Bill Express

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  1. Brett

    Mine states that the Direct Debit is made by Bill Express BY AND ON BEHALF OF MOBIUS!

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  2. Michael

    Should we all ask Mobius to provide us with the original signed contracts?

    I don’t think they have them.

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  3. helen

    The one thing about contracts, is what happens should we want to terminate the contract.
    Question was put to the BillExp rep, and the answer was, it’s easy just call us and let us know,and we’ll take the machine off you as there’s no point in you keeping the machine if it is not profitable.
    At no point was the mention of having to make full payments of remaining term.
    Now having read the contract somewhat, it obviously does not seem to be worded as verbally mentioned.
    We had no reason then to doubt the sales rep’s word, otherwise we would tried to read through the contract wordings.
    It’s all a scam really and no doubt ANF is in cahoots with them , so now they are trying to bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away without too much fanfare.
    Otherwise if genuinely they have been hoodwinked by BillExp, then they could redeem themselves by doing all they can now to help.

    We do not see that happening, so how can ANF still hold its head up high and face the industry????

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  4. Brett

    So Don has quit eh? The first of the rats leaves the sinking ship?

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  5. Helen

    ANF – Is it the rat leaving the sinking ship?

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  6. Anon.

    He was kicked out.

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  7. SHAUN

    I CALLED MOBUIUS EMAILED THEM AND EVEN SENT THEM REGISTERD MAIL TO GET THEM TO SEND ME A COPY OF THE CONTRACT AND 2 WEEKS LATER I STILL HAVE NOT HAD A REPLY

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  8. Andrew

    Shaun, we had a reply from Allco finance after we sent a blunt email to them. They dont seem to know much other than always replying that they may take action recovering the rental monies. we did dispute we had a contract and we only signed a change of ownership agreement and that the original contract was signed by previous owners over 5 years ago. They came back to us stating BX might have reset the 4 year term when we took over a year ago. We have asked them to provide the original signed copy but have not heard back in over a week.
    All this mess will not stand up in court.

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  9. Anon.

    I don’t mean to be insensitive. But it is very dangerous for this blog to start offering comment about legal precedent (as Mark did at the weekend), and pick out little nuances that you believe may save you in court. Hopefully, newsagents will learn from this Bill Express fioasco to actually read contracts before they sign. But I’ll confidently predict most newsagents have NOT read contracts for arrangements replacing Bill Express, including (respectfully), Exi-Pass.

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  10. mark

    Anon. There is no contract for eziPass, only for the companies providing product through eziPass.

    Another difference is that with BXP there was mandatory hardware involved.

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  11. sa_paperboy

    So one would guess, given the timing, that McAskill leaving is closely related to the Bill Xpress debacle? We have no direct relationship with bill xpress ourselves, everything I have been reading sounds like this could be the thing to kill the ANF though.

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  12. Carol

    I have discovered tonight that Mobius has deducted lease payment from my account today 28th July. I had asked my bank to stop payment. How do I stop them other than closing my account.

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  13. Daniel

    Don was 100% committed to the job but was asked to leave……

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  14. mark

    Meet with your manager and show him/her your written request to stop payment. Ask what authority they have for this latest deduction. Get professional advice.

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  15. Michael

    Back to the topic.

    The way I see it is that it there is a company letterhead at the top of the agreement that it is all tied into one.

    I think Mobius is taking a real chance here by making us pay up. They have obviously known the outcome from the start being associated with BE for so long.

    I think seeing they may have a “history” they might go the same way as the other BE associated companies.

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  16. PB

    We also had our lease payment deducted from our account tonight using the same code we had given to the bank to block. It cost us $15 each to put a block on the lease code and the dial time code. Looks like the only way to stop is to close your account. We will be visiting our bank manager today!

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  17. LIZ

    We DIDN’T get the lease payment deducted last night – we had stopped the direct debit and moved all available funds to a new account we opened last week. However we are monitering the situation very closely until we can fully close our old account. In the meantime we are going to lodge a disputed transaction form with bank for the payments deducted at end of April and May by Perpetual Nominees and see if we can be successful in getting these refunded as we had never signed a new direct debit authority with that organisation – will let you know the outcome in due course.

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  18. Michael

    My other point is that being tax time and all, we can write the rental off on tax. But what do the ATO think of that?

    The ATO would just be indrectly giving Mobius millions just because of their dodgy dealings with BE and associated companies which have all gone into administration.

    Maybe the tax man will be on our side for once?

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  19. SHAUN

    if you didn’t aurthorise the direct debit should it be counted as theft ?

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  20. Michael

    Debts can be sold so if they have bought it off BE,(which I don’t believe-I’d say a deal has been cut) they can legally take it out of our account authorised or not.

    BE breaching the contract should make the whole thing null and void, it’s just that the contracts we signed were a piece of work that had “get out of jail free cards” interwoven in them for the benefit of BE and Co.

    I think it will just be a matter of time before (would you believe it!) it all unravels again.

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  21. SHAUN

    while debts are getting sold off any one want to buy mine ??

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  22. Michael

    I’ve thought about giving mine at no charge to the former CEO!!! LOL

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  23. SHAUN

    oh well at least there can still be some humor about it

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  24. mark

    sa paperboy – I think it had nothing to do with it. Mark

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  25. SHAUN

    when we stopped our direct debit the bank said it was there responsiblity if it still got deducted ,so i would presume all banks would be the same we are with suncorp and so far it has not been touched

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  26. sa_paperboy

    Yeah I have been told the real reason now, I think it better he let people believe it was over Bill Xpress.

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  27. Helen

    It is the banks responsibility to stop the direct debit as you still own the account. If you have given the bank the correct codes, they must return the payment.
    There is no need to close bank accounts. What an inconvenience to everyone.
    Make the banks earn their fees; after all it is your money RALPH!

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  28. Samuel

    I’ve seen the so-called ‘rental payment’ was debited from my bank account at 28th July 08, and I was furious. Then when I revisited the account again on 29th July 08, the debit transaction wasn’t there. I reckon they try to deduct the money through direct debit from my account, but I’ve informed my bank and already suspended the facility, so this transaction didn’t go through. I’m glad with that today. But for now, I think the safest way is to close the old account, and open a new account. So they would never find you. But it will involve too many changes for the business. What a mess BXP has created for small business!

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  29. Helen

    I stopped my payments 3 months ago, in writing to the NAB. I have had nothing deducted from my account since. Maybe you have a lazy bank.
    Speak to you business bankers. Thats what they are paid to fix. Don’t be frightened to get the bank working for you.
    It is too hard to close accounts and change everything for one Direct Debit.
    Good Luck

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  30. helen

    think it’ll be too much time wasted to go talk to the bankers each time there’s a dispute with the direct debit.
    my dealings with banks are usually touch and go, one day you’ll get a good one and the next one who doesn’t know much about procedures,etc.
    I’d rather close my bank a/c and rearrange all my banking at one go and live in peace knowing they won’t ever get access to my money.

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  31. Andrew

    We stopped payments 3 months ago also and the account hasnt been touched. Although our bank has been terrific and are watching our account very closely. We gave them every name of businesses that are connected with BX to watch out for.

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  32. jointforce

    like most of you, i to cancelled the direct debit access to my account a month ago, but noticed today that it had been deducted,funny thing is my bank is one which is owed over 50 million by bxp

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  33. lyn

    what do we do with all the equipment ask them to pick it up or what

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  34. jointforce

    Did anyone of you out there receive any documentation in writing regarding this in your contracts….”notice of variation by us to terms of direct debit arrangements”
    In addition to any other notice we are required to give under your rental contract or by law, we will give you at least 14 days notice in writing if we propose to vary any of the terms of the direct debit arrangements, unless any such variation ia as a result of a request by you

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  35. jointforce

    ???? if i am successfull in stopping my fees being deducted from my account and they decide to pursue me for the funds what avenues of support do i have?

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  36. James

    Join class action with NANA now.

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  37. jointforce

    does it matter what state i am in?

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  38. James

    Contact NANA – BXP class action on 02 92336100.

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  39. jointforce

    james your assisstance is appreciated…. will let all my other ex bxp colleagues know

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  40. keith

    Has anyone else had trouble getting St George/Bank SA stopping the Mobius direct debit? Is there a code number that they are missing? They say they cannot guarantee that cancelling the authority will stop the debit. Who is liable when further payments slip through?

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  41. mark

    Keith, The bank is liable. I will post some details tomorrow on what you can do to better bring this to their attention. Mark

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  42. PB

    The bank reversed the lease payment as well as refunded all the stop payment fees we were charged. They claimed the transaction came through on a different code, but it appears on our statement with the same code we gave them. The bank suggested the best way is to close the account as they can not guarantee to stop the deduction every month.

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