Not much good news for Bill Express today. Their share price has fallen to 10.5 cents, from 12.5 cents yesterday. There is a growing volume of dissent among newsagents about the unilateral removal by a $250 per store per month marketing subsidy by Bill Express last month.
While I am no lawyer, the documents I have seen now from several newsagents suggest that Bill Express has breached the agreement it had with these newsagent. In one case, Bill Express wrote:
In a nutshell, this guarantees that, combined with the other rebates we pay now, you won;t be out of pocket.
Thanks to the Bill Express action last month, this newsagent is out of pocket.
In another Bill Express document provided to a newsagent as part of their representations, Bill Express said:
Express Shop has formed a Marketing Support/Incentive program to offset costs to your business. This incentive is equivalent to making up the shortfall of up to 200 bill payment transactions and in recognition of your efforts in meeting the criteria outlined below and will effectively ensure that you are at a break even or better position.
Thanks to the Bill Express action last month, this newsagent is no longer at a break even or better position – even though they have done everything required of them by Bill Express.
It appears that Bill Express is prepared to breach its agreements and commitments with newsagents, both written and oral, in order to preserve cash. given the action individual newsagents are talking of, this may well prove to be false economy by the company.
It may just be me, but is billexpress running with more errors then usual lately. Our ANZ eftpos has been offline for most of the week and wants to initiate before every transaction and the billexpress screens instore are down a lot over the past two weeks. Thank god we have have a backup with another Bank.
Mark, the response to this story so far has surprised me as I thought that there would have been more interest as many newsagents have billexpress, does this mean that it’s not as a bigger problem as one would think? Or newsagents are more interested in plastic bags than the billexpress situation?
Clem, the response is pretty typical since most of the newsagents are not fully aware of their exposure or they do not know what to do about it.
I don’t believe the industry associations have made enough of explaining the exposure in a public forum which is a pity because most of the newsagents are looking for a direction on this and nothing seems to be forthcoming.
Regards,
Clem it’s the million dollar question – why newsagents will complain to each other about something but NOT act.
We are looking at other options to put in place BEFORE we cancel with Bill Express. It is not only newsagents who are with Bill Express as they signed up other retailers as well. The Contracts and Compliance Dept. at Bill Express appears to be the section people need to deal with. We signed up to eziPass at the start and we are using that medium to sell as much product as we can instead of Dailtime.
can anyone ever trust a union again after all this???
any one in a newsagency should have been aware that bill express was doomed from the outset-over the last 7 years we have all seen the large drop in newspaper and magazine sales due to people reading them on line-who in their right mind would go into a newsagency or post office and pay bills when one can do this on line or over the phone???are we going to go back to the 60s when we all went into shops to pay bills???come on now ,lets get real!!!!!!
Well I for one have told Bill Express to come and pick up their equipment. They made threats that I was still under contract. I pointed out that the rep that sold us the system promised that we would never be out of pocket. They still threatened, so I’ve cancelled the auto payment from my account. They can take me to court if they like and we’ll test the contract. But the people that will really suffer are the customers. I feel sorry for them.
Bill Express has suckered newsagents. We shold all turn their equipment off and cut off their cash supply.
I must say I’m rethinking both of my Bill Express sites….
And $31 for receipt rolls now? Come on……
Bill Express said we would make money, they promised the world. We are losing money. Their share price fall is the only comfort.
I too have cancelled my billexpress machine. just turned it off, cancelled direct debit and told them to come and get it.
there are very competitive other forms of machine available for phone cards etc, and they actually pay better margins than billexpress anyway.
i would suggest that everyone gets there brain into gear and get rid of the damn terminal as soon as they can.
i have given them written notice that i will store there screens for a maximum of 3 months as per the disposal of goods act. i am invoicing them $50- per week for each week there equipment is not collected for storage costs.
if they fail to collect it within that 3 month time frame, then i will dispose of the uncollected goods in accordance with the act.
geoff
hi Jeff can you please tell me which newsagency you’re from I would dearly love to terminate our contact. I need some advice please
Does anyone know of anyone who has managed to terminate their contract with Bill Express?
I recently sold my newsagent and notified Bill Express that the new owners didn’t want the dial time system and the equipment needed to be remove in the next 3 weeks.Dial time shutdown my systems the next day the system was unable to be used, when I called Dialtime they told me our account was overdue as we have requested the equipment to be removed due to sale of business and there was outstanding money owing on the rental agreement.
I think all newsagents should approach the ANF and ask for them to take legal action on our behalf as this is what we pay membership for.
took on Bill Exp despite misgivings about the rebates available towards the rental equip, however seeing that ANF was involved, gave it a chance. So what good has this trust bring us!!!! zilch!
so definitely this has been such a letdown in the industry. who can blame the newsagent for not wanting to join/pay the union for doing nothing!
also by having the big screen installed not too long ago, the original contract was further extended as well!!!
On hindsight, really there’s no way we could have processed 200 bill payments/mth given the location we are in ie next to Post Office and the convenience of paying online via BPay/over the phone – a method of choice by the generation of today.
If there’s any means to be able to get out of the contract except by paying them, I am most interested.
what’s been happening to those who have shut down their bill exp terminals and cancel their direct debits. How has Bill Exp respond so far?
If there is a lot of newsagents that would like to break there agreement with Bill Express.
Then lets all get together and put in some money and fight this in court as Mark stated above.The more newsagents we get the more pressure we put on bill express and the cheaper the cost.
Like Peter says above put pressure on the ANF to fight for us all.
I got a letter yesterday that the rent collection / direct debit is to be done through third party (I can’t remember the name). Does anyone know what is going on with this.
I am keen to cancel the contract, but the call center said we have to pay the rent until the contract is finished. If I terminate the bank connection now, is there any legal action involved?
I just recently bought the newsagency and had on experience at all before. I am a bit in the dark for this whole situation, and very upset with the current situation that I am losing money while I do the service for free. Is ANF going to have action against Bill Express on behalf of newsagencies?
Graeme Samuel of the ACCC would probably be interested in the Bill Express situation. Especially with their “you won’t be out of pocket” promises.
Or the current affair programme may be interested in covering this Bill Express issue.
The ACCC website has a facility to lodge a detailed complaint online.
I urge all involved to do this. The more who complain to the ACCC the better the chance something might be done.
Go to http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/SmallBusinessComplaintsAndEnquiries/ and open the Small Business Complaints link at the bottom of the page and go from there.
I also phoned our local office of the ACCC and made a phone complaint. The person who takes the call can not make any comment, but all complaints are recorded, the more the better. To my mind our complaints fit into the category of ‘Unconscionable conduct between businesses’.
We received that letter also, no phone number on the letterhead, no fax number – just an email address – who are these people??
Brian C, we would appreciate if you have a copy of the completed complaint form made available for us to use as a guide to assist us in expediting the whole complaint process especially the descriptive sections of the complaint form.
Bario, you just need to do as outlined above – its an online form, not something you can print and fill in.
My complaint is probably different to most others as our business is in the process of being sold – we are facing a huge payout to BXP if the new owners don’t take BXP over, and why would they when it costs so much?
The common theme here is that BXP promoted itself as being cost neutral. They broke this verbal agreement.
Good Idea Brian. We all have to register a complaint with the accc. Alone, few of us can afford the time/money to fight Bill Express. The accc is probably our best way forward. If the accc makes a decision in our favour, as I’m sure they will, then even BillExpress can’t afford to ignore them. My Bill Express salesman shook hands with me assuring me that although I may never make any money out of the service, I would never be out of pocket. Now I’ve just received a letter of demand with the usual threats for $544.50 for the BillExpress Feb08 rental. Numerous calls to BillExpress get me nothing more than “Read your Contract.” I have spoken to the salesman who signed me and he assures me that BillExpress assured him that we would not be out of pocket and he has emailed them his concerns.
Hello Graham and Geoff, after you canceled direct debit account for Bill Express, Did Bill Express sand debt collector or ask you to the court? Any response from them? I”m a newsagenct in hornsby, Sydney. We going to have a meeting on 20/04/2008, (Sunday) 5:00 pm at Auburn RSL Club. 33 Northumberland Road, Auburn, Sydney. NSW 2144. About 30 of newsagents will be there to talk about Bill Express issue. If you not happy with Bill Express please contact with Jim to booking
your set: 02-95162151. or email: sales@usedplotter.com.au. We already log in the complain to ACCC. ACCC need more information from our newsagents to make a judgment. Please bring your merchandise ID and evidence of the doc from Bill Express. Be there. Haydn.
Yes, I have received a letter of demand from Bill Express. However, have contacted their accounts department and they are happy to sit on it for a while until I sort this out with management. You have all probably received their letter dated 10 April, in which, under Regional Support, they state they will provide support in the form of 1. Re-allocation/removal of the system or 2. Financial support to top up returns. So I contacted them and have asked they remove the system or provide support. They have promised to refer my request to management – that was last week and I am still waiting for their response.
So what’s going on with BXP?
Shares at 58c and still dropping, and 2 asx announcements today. What are the implications for us?
Does anyone know what, (if anything)ever happened with the tatts and bill express alliance,and didnt tattersalls take an ownership position in Bill express at some stage?
I just got my tax invoice for March
Total Rental $554.30 less 16 Bill Ex Trans ($12.32) Net cost to me for having this bloody service $541.98 how do I survive & when are we going to be told what the criteria is for this so called regional support. I cant wait to hear all the other newsagents kick & scream!
Brian, is 5.8 cents. They requested a trading halt for 2 business days from ASX as they are ‘in a dispute under a material contract and is taking advice’.
http://www.aspectfinancial.com.au/asxdata/20080428/pdf/00835829.pdf?_cobr=optus
By the way we have just received an urgent notice (fax) from PPS that Optus/PPS have terminated the Sub Agreement with BE. So their calling cards and prepaid vouchers will no longer available on Dial Time terminals.
Mark, excellent timing. Grab hold of Optus/PPS NOW.
Neil,
we are in the same boat for Mar08 as well, being charged the full $548.58.
ever since we got the letter about withdrawal of all rebates, we are not putting through much business through DialTime as there’s no point BillExp earning off our hardwork, besides you can get better commission from other suppliers. and we do NEED the extra income now to “feed the vultures”.
Bill Exp has now sent us a reply letter stating the length of contract remaining which we do not agree on.
They have the gall to write also that after this contract we can enjoy not having to pay the rental any more. Who do they think we are ?? suckers for punishment!!!
Neil,Helen,
We are in same situation. where the $210.00 things gone? We are thinking to swith off them now. How to finish this contract.Any one have idea.
Frank,
We have had no response from bill express to our calls, letters, emails, BUT WE WILL NOW!!!!….
This is what we have done:
get bank to reverse the rental payment back to you (anz charged us $15.00)
We are demanding that bxp reinstate the rebate.
We are also about to contribute to a fighting fund that will enable us to hire good lawyers to nail these lying dogs’ testicles to the wall in style.
A group of Chinese blokes from all across Sydney have done a damn fine job and put in a lot of work with the ACCC.;
however I believe good lawyers, with ACCC connections, will be even better for us, not only to get us out of these contracts, but to go for compensation for loss of income, stress, etc.
A.N.-who? (F’em).
If anyone is inerrested in joining a fighting fund with some serious punch, please register your interest on this blog.
I will post an email adress you can contact.
cheers
Bob
As far as alternatives go, it looks to me like the banks are the best bet. Com bank & St George for example both have a bigger range than dial time had (before optus pulled the pin), and the commisssion is much better.
As far as bill payment goes, who gives a rat’s?
But seriously, if you have dear old things who really want to come & pay bills, just do it for them on Bpay, & if they are honeys & buy stationery & things off you, you don’t need to charge them for the transaction…
cheers bob
Frank,
we will not receive any form of rebates from Mar08.
we checked our bank acct this morning and saw the rental charge of 544.50 being drawn but no subsequent credit for any commission earned for Mar08.
so we rang BillExp and asked what the problem was, they use “long weekend” as excuse and promised that the funds will be in the a/c tonight.
so we shall see tomorrow if their word is good.
If not, there will have to be repercussions ie we’ll all have to think about cancelling all the direct debit Bill Exp and the rental equipment company has on our a/cs.
why should we honour the contract when they have no conscience about dishonouring their side of the bargain?
checked my bank acct again this morning and there’s no sign of the promised credits from Bill Exp.
This is definitely a breach of contract in my point of view.
Yesterday I have already turned away 2 customers wanting to pay bills using BillExp due to the uncertainty of ever getting our commissions at all or even the paid money reaching the billers .
Every newsagent should start boycotting BillExp NOW!!!
I have been telling our fellow newsagents from a few weeks ago but they haven’t felt the impact until yesterday when the direct debit of $544.50 was taken from their a/c.
So hopefully now people are waking up to the real situation and not take things sitting down.
Please make complaints to ACCC/ any appropriate govt bodies and join action groups who are now preparing to do something about the situation.
well done, Geoff,
If we cancell direct debit, Bill Express will take us to the court?
Which Bank now offer better deal for EFTPOS?
AS A SERVICE TO OUR LOCAL ELDERLY FOLK, TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM, WE ARE PAYING WATER, OPTUS, RATES, ETC OFF FOR THEM AT $5.00 PER TIME.
IT’S JUST A COINCIDENCE THAT WE NEWSAGENTS GET MORE BILL PAY COMMISSION WHEN WE BREAK A $100.00 PAYMENT DOWN INTO TWENTY $5.00 PAYMENTS, NOW, ISN’T IT???
Bob,
What a tragic snapshot of a business person’s strategy – using ‘local elderly folk’ in this way.
This type of strategy is doomed.
For goodness sake, apply your available minutes into a bigger game-plan.
Peter
Unfortunately, these spawn of whores and donkey handlers are very clever.
You can stop a payment, by telling the bank to put an urgent dishonour on the payment; or you can put a cancellation on the payment.
However, by tweaking the codes, they can get the money the following month.
The only way you are going to keep the filthy mongrels’ paws off your money, without calling the bank every month and paying a dishonour fee, is to completely close your bank account.
Be very careful about doing this. We intend to, but not before taking legal advice.
We have joined the NANA fighting fund, and taking their legal advice.
The money goes into a trust fund. The money stays our money collectively, and any surplus, after we have nailed the filth to the wall, will come back to us, the contributors.
The more people who join, the cheaper it will be for all of us.
We are not NANA members. At no time did any one in the NANA board pressure us to join NANA. We went and met them all. They are all the same as you & me.
Unlike the ANF, who we are members of, the NANA board are all newsagents. They are all bleeding the same blood as us with this thing.
The fighting fund, I believe, is the way to go, and the lawyers they are using have a proven track record that speaks for itself. They also have a very strong relationship with the ACCC.
Please contact NANA for details. They will fax you details.
United we stand, & we’ll nail them.
Divided and individual, they’ll pick us off one at a time & sue us for the rental, plus interest.
Thomas T
Sorry Thomas, I was actually taking the piss, but obviously didn’t make that clear enough. Of course we wouldn’t use the elderly. We’d do it with our own bills though!.
You’re right, it was time wasting.
See my posting re NANA & the legal fund. That is serious.
I agree Bob.
What is the expected/desirable input per newsagent? How much each are we looking to pay?
What ROI are we looking at?
Hi Thomas,
What newsagency are you at. If close by I will come and visit and explain all to you.
Thomas T, Presumably you have calculated the ROI on BE. Now how about u tell us the ROI on BE then we can decide whether the ROI on this legal action is worth it!!
The choice is simple
1) lose $500 with CERTAINTY each month
2) Pay for the class action with a PROBABLE positive outcome
I think it’s crystal clear
The maximum you can lose with option 1) from inaction is whatever BXP reckons you owe.
ie, in my case $14000
but I know unluckier ones
I think I rather use the $14000 if need to be on the case, than kowtow over 😉
ALL
Re the announcement by ANF re $200 levie:
If any newsagent is actually going to a)remain with ANF after this fiasco, and b)actually allow themselves to be extorted of $200 by anyone, well well well, …all I can do is shake my head in wonder…
haven’t you had enough, folks?
I am resigning from ANF, and joining the NANA fighting fund,
Their legal team is already working.
Yes the cost is more, but they’ve got the track record in legal victories on behalf of newsagents.
Besides, how on earth can the anf possibly have any credibilty after this fiasco?
I feel much safer in NANAs hands. They are hands that do not grab.
I heard that some newsagents were actually signed up to bill express so recently, that they are now up for 53 months remaining…Is this true????
Good luck to anyone who pays the $200 levie.
I certainly won’t be.
er, it’s not that bad cuz I’d reckon BXP won’t be in bizness for 53 more months.
We who went through the dot bomb got a word for this, bankruptcy 😉
Here is a list of BXP directors,found on comsec
Mr Hal Christiansen Executive Director —
Mr Ian Christiansen Executive Director, Chief Executive – Ireland —
Mr Julian Little Executive Director – Strategic Development —
Mr Dugal J McDougall Non-Executive Director —
Mr Christopher J Murphy Non-Executive Director —
Mr Tristan Fischer Non-Executive Director —
Mr Michael Doery Non-Executive Director 16/10/2006
Mr leath Nicholson Company Secretary —
Mr Craig Brown Non-Executive Director —
I’d exercise diligence about doing business with those people in future 🙂
jk
they may not be around, but what if they sell their debts to (put crudely) repo gorrillas?
repos don’t operate on air, or stupidity
if it’s gonna cost them more to grab something I don’t think they would bother.
Seen anyone take up on Centros? anyone?
The rats are leaving the sinking ship and they know it
99% of the threats are going to remain that way: threats
yeah
I think you’re right
But I like what NANA are doing
cheers
Bob, what is this ‘Announcement by ANF re: $200 levied’ and when was it announced. can you enlighten me please.
Bario
Is this extortion, desperation or what?
(cut & paste from anf email to me)
ANF announcement concerning Bill Express
The ANF’s lawyers are undertaking an urgent analysis of the circumstances under which members entered into Bill Express Merchant and Rental Agreements. The circumstances may be such that a number of members have legal causes of action against Bill Express. A considerable number of our members have expressed great concern about the conduct of Bill Express and want to know where they stand and what they can do if they think they’ve been improperly treated.
In order to assist the analysis of the situation, we need to obtain information in relation to the status of newsagents’ individual contracts including some particulars relating to the circumstances under which members entered into their agreements.
Below is a link to a brief survey for all ANF members to complete and the ANF urges all members to make the time to complete and return this survey as soon as possible.
The survey is in an electronic format and the details you provide will be held on a secure server for analysis by our lawyers.
Please complete survey
The ANF Board has decided to consider raising a levy of $200 from ANF members to fund legal action against Bill Express.
In accordance with s6.5 of the ANF Consolidated Constitution the ANF may raise levies of up to $200 from each Individual Financial Member.
Any Member shall not be liable for the levy if that person resigns as a Member by notice in writing to the Company within 14 days of this notice.
All funds collected from members will be held in trust by the ANF and shall upon conclusion of this matter be redistributed equally to all contributing Members.
In the event legal proceedings are initiated by the ANF, we will be unable to directly assist any non-member newsagents.
This is one of the most significant challenges faced by the industry in recent memory.
There has never been a more important time to be a member of the ANF.
(about 5.30 pm yesterday friday)
This approach, waving a big stick, is the exact opposite to that adopted by NANA
how many times have the anf done surveys and nothing ever come of them
Precisely, to me they are only putting up a show that they are actually doing something about BE. If they are sincere to right the wrong they could use the $600,000 kick back from BE instead of putting the levy of $200 on its members.
I am with Bob, I like the NANA way better.
I am not a member of ANF or NANA, just using my own judgement on which action will benefit me more.
I don’t blindly follow some organisation since we get bombarded by ads each day, you get a pretty good bs filter this way 🙂
NANA have already planned exactly what legal action class action to take: two pronged. Nsw state court; & federal court.
ANF are yes, collecting more stastistics.
Newsagents don’t have time to piss about with surveys.
NANA are newsagents
I know what I’m doing now.
Bob
what about if we close our bank a/c which Bill express take money from, what will happen?
I don’t think NANA will win the case because they don’t have strong points to against.
Everyone must remember the contract we signed is design by ANF & Bill express.